Gana La Verde

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Maybe if your government gave these individuals adequate and full legal counsel, they would not have to turn to the private market to get demeaned and humiliated

Michael, this is bullshit.

First, it isn't "my" government. The last time I checked, you live in the same country I do. I don't have my own personal government.

Once again, I will have to agree to disagree. I agree with most of what Dan and Andrea are saying, but I still think the show is a little .... sad.

Maybe it's the situation that these people are in that makes it sad. Maybe it's the desperation that makes me sad ....

All I know is that when I read about this show, it made my heart sad.

[Brendo]

Cholesterol makes my heart sad...

I say open immigration and close down the egg farms!

[syphos]

Ooh, Mallen, I already volunteer two days a week for a community center that provides free ESL, literacy, and citizenship classes and consultations. So BOO-YA!!

Actually, I knew your work was somewhat in line with this. It was directed at people who strongly disfavored the television program and who also are not currently attempting to help the situation directly, but only passively.

Also, it's your government too, you Swedish-loving socialist.

I didn't vote it in.

Dre

Mike

P.S. What kind of communist hell has socialized LAWYERS that work even for non-residents? You pinko moron. (j/k, I love you mallen)

P. S. For some reason I have this vision where there are people who work for the state, but help out those who cannot afford them. For now I will refer to them as public defenders, but I think I will need a more accurate name of immigrants. For some reason, I think that people who are here legally, and qualify for it economically, they should be allow some consultation to their rights and, in the case of deportation, have a public defender for them.

Now, if they are brown, their lawyer ought to be coked up or an regressive alcohlic, but I cannot promise everything. I believe that people, whether or not they are citizens, should be afforded some substantial rights in this country, especially when it comes to arrest, criminal proceedings, detainment, trials, and deportation.

P.P.S. In an ideal world, we should just make the process less complicated, instead of keeping it a huge mess and then trying to get everyone legal help.

If we ban the legal system, then only the criminals will have courts.

[Brendo]

Dude, renounce your citizenship or it IS your government. Thats sort of how it works...

[syphos]

Michael, this is bullshit.

First, it isn't "my" government. The last time I checked, you live in the same country I do. I don't have my own personal government.

There is no government like no government. Since you have a share in the government, then maybe you can change it so people don't have to turn to reality shows to solve their problem. See, this is a neat little trick I pulled, I proposed two solutions to your problem:

You said: "Reality tv sucks"
I said: "With better government, that tv show would not exist."
or
"If you really don't like the system, why don't you act as a private individual to solve."

You say: "Boy do I hate that show."

That's a fun synopsis of our conversation.

Once again, I will have to agree to disagree. I agree with most of what Dan and Andrea are saying, but I still think the show is a little .... sad.

Maybe it's the situation that these people are in that makes it sad. Maybe it's the desperation that makes me sad ....

All I know is that when I read about this show, it made my heart sad.

You just said sad 4 times...in 5 different ways. How can you do that?

[syphos]

Originally posted by Brendo
Dude, renounce your citizenship or it IS your government. Thats sort of how it works...

So as long as you maintain citizenship in a country the government is yours? No matter how it acts and if it is against your wishes? Can I play with that logic anyway in which I desire.

[Brendo]

"You just said sad 4 times...in 5 different ways. How can you do that?"

With both passion and flair in her love of langugae, Michael.

And maintaining a voluntary bond in this political system for whatever reason (apparently apathy, or whatever) is tacit endorsement on some level of the system. You also participate in it actively all the time with taxes and voting, so you perpetuate the system that you claim not to be a part of.

Actually, the more I think about it, if you were born a naturalized citizen, I guess then rejection doesn't require such renunciation of that bond, as it was placed upon you involuntarily... But in that case why not just go the extra mile?

This is moving ttoward hijack territory, so if you wanna start a new thread or just PM me, thats cool...

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Michael,

Yeah, but I didn't start the thread to overthrow the god-damned government. I started it to comment on the sad society in which we live in where a grand prize is the chance at a green card.

The last time I checked, Dubya isn't funding the show.

I do what I can to help out with problems in our society. I can't change the world by myself. That doesn't mean I can't comment on situations I find to be .....

sad
blue
depressing
despondent
cheerless
gloomy
disconsolating

There. I said sad in 6 ways. Happy?


edit: to address the post

[syphos]

Originally posted by bnm
Michael,

Yeah, but I didn't start the thread to overthrow the god-damned government. I started it to comment on the sad society in which we live in where a grand prize is the chance at a green card.

The last time I checked, Dubya isn't funding the show.

Brandi, you are not accurately reading my argument. If this show really bothers you, there are (buzz term!) pro-active solutions in realms you can change. You can create a website, a government initiative for free legal consulting in particular areas, a referendum (though I am not sure how active this would be in Arkansas, but there are some immigrants there), volunteer for a free legal service provider or an immigration watch group.

Just saying "this show proves our society is sad" is a very passive statement. It should compel you to action. Brandi of net-benefits rise up, you have nothing to lose but your sad(ness).

[boredguy8]

I don't see how it's any more demeaning than any other reality TV show.

[Brendo]

"Turn Those Clapping Hands Into Angry, Balled Fists!"

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Oh god, I've provided the fodder that woke the revolutionists...

[pdano]

Public defenders are appointed when you're going to be convicted of a crime. If you were going to be deported, then I think there's a good bit of logic that supports a public defender (currently, you are permitted to hire your own lawyer, but you're not entitled to one by law or constitution). But for any motion at law that you want to bring... beyond the scope of the government's obligation.

Dan

[smiley30girl]

Real quick:

Andrea- Yup, graduated. Start orientation at Berkeley in 7 days. But when I come across topics that are interesting, I send them to people still competing. (what are you up to? PM me)

Dan- I guess we're just never going to agree on what the show "promises" or "portrays." Based on its title and premise, my opinion is that it offers a green card it can't deliver.

As for the government stuff....eh....

Audrey

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Audrey,

The show is very clear on the prize it offers: a chance to win a green card. The show does not promise a green card. It would be illegal and dumb for them to do so. As long as they meet the requirements, they should have very few problems.

Your problem with the show is a little different than mine. I just wanted to be sure you are clear on what the show actually promises...

[smiley30girl]

brandi...ummm, yeah, i get it... we don't like the show for different reasons.

i just wanted to say that on tonight's "daily show", lewis black's "back in black" was about the show. pretty funny stuff.

Audrey

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Lewis Black is funny. Period. All the time.

[rauko]

Hi, my name is Adrian Vallarino and I'm the producer & director of "Gana la Verde".
This is the first forum I read were people are having an intelligent debate on our little show so if you guys want to ask me any questions I will be more than happy to answer them.

Bests,

Adrian

[Brendo]

Hi, Adrian. I'm Brendan O'Grady- debater at Ark State and a lifelong Californian (native to the LA/Orange County area).

Since you've given the chance, I'd like to hear the producer's point of view. If I could ask as objectively as possible, how do you feel about the show's perceivable "exploitative" qualities?

I was also wondering who the contestants will be, and if losing the show will expose them as being without legal claim to residence.

Anything you'd like to share would be welcome.

Thanks.

[rauko]

Hi Brendan,

I really don’t feel that our show exploits people. At the end of the day we are just another TV show that gives a price, our price is high quality legal counseling. There are shows out there that strand people in remote islands, or offer them boob jobs or jail them for months in a house under constant psychological and physical pressure and nobody seams to care, on the contrary, they draw huge audiences.

I will also give you a few facts so you may better understand what really goes on our shows. For starters, an interesting fact is that around 60% of our contestants are either US citizens or permanent legal residents, they come to our show because they think is fun to participate and they are usually coming to give the price to a relative or friend. This by the way is allowed in the rules of our show.
Also, if you watch the show you will see that although they are all competing against each other, they are usually cheering and encouraging each other, you can really see they are having fun.
As a side note I must say that if I had a choice Id rather not have this happen since the show would have more drama if there was always a strong rivalry among them, but since it is after all reality TV, we don’t intervene.
Regarding the legal status of the participants and what happens afterwards to them I must say that to the best of our knowledge they are all legally in the country so they shouldn’t fear anything.

In any case I think (and hope) that the Department of Homeland Security has better and more important things to do than watch a TV show were honest hard working people compete to try and adjust their status to be more hardworking and productive to the society.

To finish I will give you an update on a couple of the legal cases being taken care of by our lawyers.

5 of our winners are probably less than 4 months from obtaining their Green Cards.

And one of them is a clear example of how we can do our little part in helping these people, he has been eligible for permanent residence for the past 2 years, but since he didn’t have the time or money to go thru the legal process he wasn’t aware of it.


BTW, sorry that it took me a few days to answer but we were shooting in the desert. ?

Bests,

Adrian

[Intellectual Fugitive]

Thanks for addressing all of our concerns, especially Brendan's. You have really made me look at the show in a different way.

Yeah -- you're right --- he said what Andrea and Dan and others have said all along. But it sounds different coming from the producer.