Help me settle a debate dispute...

[Pattybar]

First of all -- I'm not sure y'all know this, but Jason and I split up over a year ago -- it was civil and he was more than fair about things -- so no hard feelings.

The dispute I'm having is with my new dude, Andy. As you might imagine, I talk about debate once in a while, as it was a big part of my life for many years. What he doesn't accept is that there are many forms of debate that don't collapse into one huge ranking system.

So, help me out... in your own words explain to him the differences in debate formats and the purpose of the NPTE... I'll have him read the thread and settle this one.. I don't always have to be right, but this time I actually am .

thanks
Patty Steck (soon to be Courtney)
former coach at Creighton, St. Thomas and Century (in that order)
founding board member of NPTE... and board member until 2011..

[TheJuiceBox]

It seems like he thinks that american football, aussie rules football and rugby should all have the same ranking metric as they're fairly similar activities despite vastly different systems of point management.

[Pattybar]

Yea... he's not all that into sports, so he may say that they should... I'd need to relate it to cameras or music...

The thing is, he thinks I'm spouting BS when I say that the NPTE is da bomb... and he doesn't get that it isn't the case that debate is debate.

What's really kinda cool is that his son Max is likely to be a kick-ass debater in a few years... I've already said I'd help coach his HS team...

[Jeffro]

Wait, people are supposed to spend their summer convincing the boyfriend of a person who hasn't been to a tournament in five years that the NPTE is awesome?

...

No.

[The Puge]

Originally Posted by Jeffro

Wait, people are supposed to spend their summer convincing the boyfriend of a person who hasn't been to a tournament in five years that the NPTE is awesome?

...

No.

wow this post was a great contribution to the discussion


also npda > npte

[Jeffro]

Hard to deny.

NPTE - Puge
NPDA - No Puge

Ergo...

[The Puge]

NPDA had just as much puge, we just had to pack it all into one round. you should've heard novack's LOC; easily the best given at the tournament this year, and, i daresay, possibly its entire history.

[darkkujah]

Originally Posted by The Puge

and, i daresay, possibly its entire history.

I might have to disagree with that one...and I can think of at least one other extra special person who would too

[carrollpadwon]

Originally Posted by Jeffro

Wait, people are supposed to spend their summer convincing the boyfriend of a person who hasn't been to a tournament in five years that the NPTE is awesome?

...

No.

Way to foster community.

[Pattybar]

Well, if you need to know... it's been about 4 years since I've been to NPTE -- and it would have been 3 except I had to have surgery and couldn't travel... (those of you who were at Berkely probably remember me being pretty bald, breast cancer and chemo didn't keep me away...).

Yea, go ahead and discount the many years I paid our way to NPTE so it would happen. Go ahead and discount all the hours I spent developing, organizing and running a tournament to which I had exactly TWO teams qualify. While you're at it, ignore anything that happened when you were in high school, because -- you know -- NPTE always existed, right?

Good luck winning the big trophy, last I knew it had a familiar last name attached to it... mine. That isn't just because I actually picked out the cup from a shop in West St. Paul and arranged for it to get into circulation...

[darkkujah]

Originally Posted by Pattybar

Well, if you need to know... it's been about 4 years since I've been to NPTE -- and it would have been 3 except I had to have surgery and couldn't travel... (those of you who were at Berkely probably remember me being pretty bald, breast cancer and chemo didn't keep me away...).

Yea, go ahead and discount the many years I paid our way to NPTE so it would happen. Go ahead and discount all the hours I spent developing, organizing and running a tournament to which I had exactly TWO teams qualify. While you're at it, ignore anything that happened when you were in high school, because -- you know -- NPTE always existed, right?

Good luck winning the big trophy, last I knew it had a familiar last name attached to it... mine. That isn't just because I actually picked out the cup from a shop in West St. Paul and arranged for it to get into circulation...

Boom....roasted.

[Robear]

Originally Posted by Jeffro

Wait, people are supposed to spend their summer convincing the boyfriend of a person who hasn't been to a tournament in five years that the NPTE is awesome?

...

No.

BBBBBUUUUURRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNN

no but really. Tell him Robear said NPTE is where the real niggaz go to throw down about nuke war and commi shit

[grizzlybur]

Originally Posted by Robear

BBBBBUUUUURRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNN

no but really. Tell him Robear said NPTE is where the real niggaz go to throw down about nuke war and commi shit

or queer theory and k of T

[schneidmaster]

Originally Posted by grizzlybur

or queer theory and k of T

or k of queer theory

[grizzlybur]

Originally Posted by schneidmaster

or k of queer theory

come at me brah

[MCHarris]

This seems like a softball no brainer. I like some pieces from almost every genre of music, but I would not begin to be able to compare techno to baroque to hip hop to metal. Each art and artist is independent in their own right. Many genres stand on their own because they are so different, with different purposes. I mean, a love ballad and a protest song? Seriously?

It is the same problem that befalls almost all philosophy. Each philosopher assuming their own framework as the benchmark or lense to analyze the other. Very few consequentialists are any good at making deontological arguments against deontology. The debates become circular and tautological.

Industrial music is just noise, it is so irritating. Ah, for some bands, duh, that IS the point. Had a good friend once that hated CDs. He preferred vinyl because he thought hiss, crackle, pop, white noise and linearity of analog sound is what made music rich. CDs sound is so much cleaner and crisper, NOT an argument for him. Both music, fundamentally different sounds. It is all in what you are looking for. I don't like parli. I like LD. I find few of the criticisms of LD all that moving. Different strokes for different folks.

[Bubarubu]

Track and cross country. Participants do the same thing (run) and they're judged in basically the same way (who crosses the line first), but the strategies and skills of a cross country runner are very different than the strategies and skills of a sprinter or middle distance runner. We wouldn't try to figure out who is faster between the two because speed would be a matter of context. Debate is debate, but its also not.

Also this comparison could be wrong. Someone who has run track or cross country (or anything else) could correct me. I only run when I'm being chased.

[Pattybar]

Y'all were helpful... thanks!

Next time he insists that there is ONE supreme debate championship, I'll pull up the thread and show him I'm not bullshitting..

Other than this one little point of conflict, he's a super nice guy who cooks, cleans, and treats me like a princess... so, I'm a lucky girl. We even have "debates" on the porch -- I get to run all kinds of fun arguments on him and he comes up with unpredictable replies, since he wasn't a debater...