parli camp- question

[prez]

Having observed the discussion of the various debate camps people attend, I inquired about this possibility for my team. My coach responded by pointing out that these parli camps were primarily for "new" debaters. Is this true? Or do people with experience traditionally attend these workshops?
Can someone tell me a bit about the pro's/con's- and if it's worth the investment.
(I remember that in HS, most experienced debaters DID go to camp, so I don't know why that wouldn't apply to parli.....)
thanks in advance,
Bridget
osu

[truthisjust]

not true AT ALL... in fact most of the people who attend have sig. experience. Most of the top debaters in the country will be at one camp or another.

[NonEcdicus]

Bridget,

Justin's definitely right. The Willamette Camp, for instance, which is huge, is effectively split for lectures into two groups and for lab sessions into much smaller groups based on experience/ability level. The camp, for the last several years has had a humongous range of experience levels represented. Everyone from total beginners coming before starting their first year of college, all the way through several folks who've ended up going undefeated in prelim rounds and winning top speaker awards at Nationals. The lab leaders tailor the small groups to individual experience levels fairly well in most cases, but perhaps former students could give you a more accurate take on that.

-Brian

[ShelbyJoPDX]

How does one become a lab leader at debate camps? Specifically the Willamette camp this summer.
I am interested in helping out.
Cheers,
Shelby Jo

[NonEcdicus]

Shelby,

I'd e-mail or call Robert Trapp (trapp@willamette.edu). He leaves for Romania for two weeks tomorrow (Monday) morning for organizational meetings with their interscholastic/intercollegiate debate organizations. But, when he gets back, I'm sure he will fill you in. I'm not sure exactly what the story is for this Summer at this point.

-Brian

[RJM]

For the record both of NPDA's most recnt national championship debate teams attended Willamette as open debaters. Ironically they debated one another in the final round at the camp tournament.

Just food for thought,

RJM

[Daniel Grossberg]

Rob, I take it you teach at Willamette?

-Dan

[RJM]

I taught there for a number of years but skipped last year because of my move to Cali and will skip this year because it conflicts with my move back to Colorado.

I have taken students as well and have yet to hear one of them argue that it was a waste of their time. Even my experienced teams appreciated being taught by folks who see the event differently than their coaches.

Plus, it is just an all around good time.

RJM

[travo]

But, on the other hand, I keep hearing that the Wyo camp is mostly just a hyper-sexual party time

Jason, is the Wyo Coop paying you to advertise for them in some sort of subversive guerilla marketing campaign? Because, if so, I think it probably worked.

Travis

[skibum]

The key to understand with the Wyo camp is that it is a co-op. As such, there are a small number of people that are there only for "the party." I think this is true in any camp environment, but because all of the staff are volunteers, and no one is paying a tuition to be there, you don't have staff members acting as a quelching influence on those who are "partying too much." However, I do want to say that the very few who do party too much do not detract at all from the ability of the participants who are there primarily to learn (the uber-majority of participants) to learn.

So, you will find that debaters get out of it what they try to get out of it. If they're there to learn about debate theory, that will happen, if they want to learn strategery, that will happen too, if they are there for no other reason than to have a good time, that will happen as well. Consequently, as far as allocating precious resources for debaters to attend, I would try and make the following determination(s): Is this debater someone that will focus on learning about debate, and clearly subordinate partying to that focus - or are they someone that will likely focus on partying and, oh yeah I went to a lecture or two... If they are the former, I would have no hesitation about sending them to Wyo, the latter - let them go on their own dime.

Co-ops are unique: a motivated debater would probably learn more in the co-op environment than in a more "traditional" camp environment - likewise an unmotivated debater would probably learn less.

A final thing that I am going to harp on for the next several months leading up to the camp is this: engage your instructors! If you have questions, about anything debate related, they will take the time to help you. So, you may be "novice," and afraid to ask a question in a lecture or lab - I don't know of a single instructor that won't be thrilled to help you out one on one if you just approach them. This is true about any debate camp, btw.

J

PS: Jason, EnergetiQ, I mean Arabian Knight, has produced an ancient thread with current discussion (you're even on it) with a time between posts of 2 years, 12 days.

[Prez]

I learned a ton last year at the coop. We joke about the fun we had because ...well.. we have personalities.. and mine happens to be a funny one. The sexual jokes are JOKES and any incident was only one incident.

The success of the coop is contingent of an investment by the debaters.. the reason people learned a LOT last year was because they wanted to, they demonstrated that by coming without coaches or school support (mostly) and it was a week that turned into an investment.

Again.... most of us became really good friends at the coop- and refer to incidents in a joking manner because we are fun people.

If you do come Jason- don't bring your straw to suck all the fun out of the room. ;) :grin ;)

[Speaknsmile]

The Pacific Debate & IE co-op will offer two different skill levels and the opportunity for more advanced debaters to also lecture less advanced debaters. I had my students do that this year and they found many skills we forget about as we advance in debate were strengthened when they were teaching.

The different skills levels are available for both parli and ies.

[Pattybar]

Bridget...

The last comment simply wasn't fair -- Jason asked a reasonable question, as we have a very new program and have about a billion ways to spend the funds it would take to rent a van for a week to drive to WY -- say nothing of many things we could do for a week instead of spend it with our debaters... (insert fun stuff with Jason here for me.. heh heh).

If the back-channel commentary he got was "the Wyo co-op is all about the party" -- then the concern is valid -- afterall, we are going with student life funding (from activity fees -- ) and you know better than I that those fees need to be spent responsibly. Exporting our debaters across 4 states to drink and do _______... seems to be a waste of funds, especially when drink and __________ are probably better and easier to find in the Twin Cities than in Laramie...

Patty

[thedancingbear]

Wyo is incredibly useful from a competitive standpoint. The results should speak for themselves.

I mean, before Wyoming, Glenn and me were still running specific knowledge every round. (I had to do it my MO!) Keith and Marie couldn't even spell T! And dude, Plush was decked out in a tie for the first few days. That place changes you.

;)

IS

[skibum]

I've pm'ed Jason with some answers to some of this stuff, but I'm going to publically say something that I think everyone should take note of:

It is much more "fun" to talk about the "fun" things that happened than it is to talk about what you learned in a k or c/p theory lecture. Consequently, if anything wild or unusual happens, that is what get talked about, and of course those stories are exagerated in the telling (it makes it more fun). What am I saying, you will always hear about the parties, but you will pretty much never hear about "that super informative T lecture." I only hear about the murders and mugging in New York City, I never hear about the single mom that raises her child well or the generous neighbor that always helps with X, or, etc, etc. So just remember that for every "wild" story you hear (there's really like, what a total of 2?) involving a couple of individuals, that you are not hearing the story of the 40 other participants that learned x in the 15 lectures they attended, or prepared briefs in lab sessions, or, you get the picture.

J

[steinguitar]

For some reason, the Coop seems to be the new hottness, but I wanted to speak for a second about the Willamette Camp. Unfortunately, I haven't been to Wyo, so I really can't speak to it, but I was at Willamette last year.

Maybe it was just a matter of it being on my circuit (west coast) but I gained a lot of useful knowledge about the way different coaches, and by extension, their programs, view debate. The lectures definitely helped my understanding of theoretical issues and the practice rounds were definitely useful, but maybe that was just because I'd only had one year of competitive debate under my belt.

Also, it's a fun place to spend a week. Granted, it might not live up to the rumored debauchery of the Wyo program, but there is a nice, social atmosphere and some great people from all over the country.

I loved it and, were I not going to be in DC this summer, I would probably have returned.

[AhhAlegra]

Word. I went to the Willamette camp in 2000 and 2001, the latter without a partner, had a wonderful time, and made some faculty buddies that saved my team's ass when we needed fees and judges during the season. It was pretty structured, and I liked that, except a very few faculty gave the exact same lecture two years in a row. Also, I learned to be slightly less scared of Bonnie Stapleton, who was my lab leader in 2001. Slightly, anyway.

[Pattybar]

Thanks y'all.. I needed that --

It is hard to know until you actually get there if it will be worth the gas and van time to go -- and as long as y'all take the debate as seriously as you take the fun (and FYI... Jason and I can be fun too -- just as long as the kids aren't looking :).. give Jason a fuzzy navel to find out for yourself, :barbuds

Patty

[smiley30girl]

Hey ya'll,

Breaking my pretty much always commitment to stay silent....:)

I want to just echo people's praise of the Willamette camp. As a newer debater, it made a huge difference: exposed to me excellent teaching, taught me new ideas, helped me meet people from all over the circuit, lots of practice rounds, and good times.

As a more experienced debater, the camp helped me to hone my skills and experiment with new styles and positions in rounds. I truly think the camp made me a much better debater. I attended for three years, and each time I learned something new.

Except when Brian Shipley was my lab leader, he taught me nothing. (Just kidding, of course. Brian's a great lab leader)

Audrey :)
CSULB

[skibum]

Breaking my pretty much always commitment to stay silent....:)
Damn, and here I thought that at least one woman had learned her place: seen and not heard.*

J

*disclaimer: you all know the comment is made in jest, Audrey knows I love her and would really like to hear her voice more often in this forum - so don't take me seriously (actually not taking me seriously is probably pretty good advice in general).

[thedancingbear]

Originally posted by JohnHrabe
Audrey,

I thought I told you to stay in the kitchen bare foot.


Gee whiz


john

What a rude child you've raised, Audrey!

IS


oh SNAP ;)

[Prez]

2 things.
1.Patty- I was joking.. I thought that the ;) :grin and ;) would send that message.. but from now on I'll raise my hand when I'm joking;).

*hand raised right now.

2.- this last little exchange was HIlarious! And that stuff about Brian Shipley is true- he asked me to explain T to him last week in confidence.
*hand up

[beatles88]

Hey,

I remember that Shipley lab ...

it was pretty cool except for that sick feeling i had the whole time from the campus food.

willamette is a nice place to meet a lot of coaches who have helped to shape and lead the NPDA community since it began in the early 1990's, which is pretty neat opportunity.

Travis

[WyomingJimmie]

I would like to contribute my two cents to the discussion of summer debate camps. I attended the Willamette camp in 1999 after my first year in college to gain some experience in parliamentary debate. My previous debate experience had been primarily policy/CEDA. I had a great time at Willamette. I was there with a couple of incoming freshmen from my squad. I was in a great lab with excellent lab leaders (RJM and Bill Sheffield). I met a lot a great people, and it is great to chat with people that I may not see very often because of the friendship that we developed at camp.

I must first admit that I did not attend the Wyo Parli Co-op last year. However, I did attend the Wyo Co-op in 2000 and 2001. The best part of the Wyo Co-op is the relaxed atomsphere combined with the mutual spirit of hard work. We had a lot of fun, but we worked even harder. I learned tons of argumentation strategies and theory at the Wyo Co-op, and the lab leaders were more than willing to explain things for as long as it takes to understand them. (even if you were not in their lab) In my opinion, having the parli co-op at the same time as the policy co-op provides for a synergistic combination that benefits both groups of debaters.

I echo the comments about getting out of the camp what you put into it. At every debate camp that I have attend, high school or college, there is a certain group of people the party too hard. At the same time, there is a certain group of people that work their tails off. I can't speak for the parli co-op, but the policy co-ops were the most fun that I had producing over 3000 pages of evidence.

Jimmie DeVore