Touchy Subject: Language

[Trojan Tau]

Old West stage coaches had rules against talking about politics, religion, and using crude language when a lady was in the stage. While we've embraced poltics for debate, and religion to some extent, how do people really deal with colorful language in rounds?

If you slip and say that something is "f*cking stupid," how do you recover? Do you move on, make note of the mistake, or defend the use of strong language?

If another team slips, do you call them on it?

What happens is somebody uses a slur? In one of my classes, somebody was doing a presentation on Japanese-American attitudes towards community service, and accidentally used the word "Jap." Which words are worse ... Jap, Mic, Nigger, Kraut, Kike, Gook, Charlie, Fag?

Are there special circumstances like quotes, jokes...?

[Trojan Tau]

Along the same line, what's the limit on crude talk about sex? Or if you reference your personal life with something like drug use?

[pattybar]

It seems that along the lines of curses, if the curse is self-directed "OK, I admit that what I said was f**king stupid"... is obviously a slip and not generally a problem... on the other hand if you say, "their argument is f**cking stupid" it is also probably a slip, but a problem because it is insulting.

Racial slurs are only semi-acceptable as an illustration or if they are self-directed. If you are calling the opposition a bunch of lying kikes from Colorado, you are being intentionally offensive and should be called on it.

As a judge, some of the decision on offensive language is relative to the tone of the round.... if it is a more casual round and everyone is goofing around a little, then I'll let an accidental slip pass. If the words are used in an angry way I am more likely to dock speaker points and if it is really insulting I'll probably conclude that the speaker/ team has lost credibility and down they go...

Patty

[Trojan Tau]

Patty:

If I call myself a "McKike combo meal with a side of Kraut and a large vodka" is that acceptable because I'm Irish, Jewish, German, and Russian (all of which I am)?

On the other hand, if I'm doing something funny about hip hop culture and call myself a nigger, nigga, jigga, or wigga, or give a shout out to all my niggas, or refer to my partner as "my nigga," I'd think people would call me on it (considering I'm about as black as Conan O'Brian).

I think this also can relate to geography. I'd be interested to know what somebody from the Bible Belt or Midwest thinks about a debater refering to "my nigga," versus some friends I have who consider that normal dialogue.

[pattybar]

Speaking from the midwest.... I'd say that if you called yourself or your partner (black or white) your "nigger" you'd get a pretty strong negative reaction. On the other hand, if you were black, the reaction would be less strong. It is sort of along the same lines as you being able to talk-down your own family, but when someone else calls them "white trash" it makes you mad....

I could call myself an "ignorant Ioweigin" more easily than someone else could... but you are still risking a negative reaction.

The more obviously planned/intentional the problem language, the more likely offense will be taken... if it sort of slips out, especially if followed by an embarassed "oops" and a correction, the judge is less likely to be offended.

Patty

[USC MissingLink]

while i don't believe in censorship, i think that certain language - while protected by law - inherently carries with it the ability and aptitude to offend. in a debate context, I can't see any possible utility for using such words unless thier use performatively furthers an argument (if you're arguing, for example, that swear-words should not be banned from Network Television).

If the use of the words is there for shock value, or because of linguistic habit, I think that the person using the language is playing with fire and diserves to get burned, not because they used the language but because they took an unecessary risk.

jEd

PS - anyone ever debate under the "fuck" criterian where you get better speakerpoints if you use the word fuck. i did once; it was kinda fun but the other team's coach threw a fit...

[ML]

Not that anyone asked, but here's my opinion:

"Those bad words" aka profanity when used in a debate round indicate a couple of things I'm not too keen on:

1. Lack of creative rhetoric; you are attempting to punctuate your point with a word that is culturally taboo, (and yeah, I have the whole Latin/Anglo back story on that if you want to hear it) therefore all the more powerful when you use it in a context that is perceptually inappropriate. The only problem is that these words have a diminishing return in terms of their ability to grab attention, and so the more you use them, the less impact they have and the more annoyingly dull you sound. It's much more convincing when you show off a vocabulary that manages to appeal as much to the heart as to the intellect.
Which leads me to:

2. failure to recognize the priviledge of the platform: aka laziness in debate. If you're repeatedly dropping the "F Bomb", it shows you're either not taking your surroundings very seriously (as serious as you would take a casual conversation with a friend on the street) or that you're dependent on that casual speech as a means to explain yourself. Neither condition befits the responsibility you have as the one others have gathered to listen to and engage on a level beyond small talk in passing.

At this point, I'm calling myself on a performative contradiction here, since I know for a fact that my language degenerates pretty quickly during the season, usually after driving a club wagon van, so I'm not saying that the occasional slip, or even intentional point of emphasis is going to make me hurl a timer at you and record a loss. And it will take a back seat to the substantive issues of the round. BUT, we must always aspire to improve ourselves, and liberal use of profanity is generally not considered to signify improvement...

In terms of "offensive language" ie racial slurs, etc, I'm a bit more sensitive. But I don't think any of us living in the 21st century (apologies to all the Amish debaters out there..) is without a healthy, (and perhaps even overpowering) sense of irony. Unlike "shit" "fuck" and "damn" which are just sort of generally titallating until the fun wears off, racial slurs are grounded in hate and the targeted marginalization/demonization of the "other". Used in the wrong way, they can be hurtful. But used ironically, the recipient of such a slur can use it to claim ownership of the word and detach it from its negative implications. From there, it begins to lose much of its power, and therefore, much of its offensiveness. Which is why it's OK for Patty to claim ownership of the term "Iwegian" (which as a Minnesotan, is about as offensive as I can bear to write...) ;) , but until she makes it clear that it's OK, no one else really should use it to describe her...

Thoughts?

ML

"You're from Iowa? 'Das OK, they got pills fer dat now"
Dad, to anyone with blue license plates

[Western Amy]

One of my fondest memories of ML was my first ever parli outround win. Although she evaluated the round on its merits, I remember it especially because she talked to use afterwards about my partner's use of the term "getting the shaft" (he was referring to what happened to public schools in a voucher system).
It was an interesting comment that made me think a lot about the metaphors that we use and the meanings that they have. It was my introduction into the ides behind language critiques (although we weren't critiqued). I'm glad that you took the time to mention it, ML (althoguh you probably don't remember it). I think that it was a great thing to bring up, although without a K, I'm glad it didn't affect the decision, and since it was an outround, I don't know if it would have affected our speaks. But I think that the way to handle offensive language is a good explanation to why it is offensive. The dialogue over the language that we use can be just as important in our education as communicators as the substantive issues.

[Trojan Tau]

Sloppy language isn't always rude, but it is often about as fun to listen to as a warped Kenny G record. When somebody says "like" three times per sentence or just gets really sloppy, it can come from three different places:

1. The other team.
2. Your partner.
3. Your own mouth.

When it comes from the other team, it seems really rude to call them on it.

When it comes from your partner, a good smack on the back of the head seems to do the trick.

When it comes from you, how can you compensate?

How do judges look at sloppy speech patterns? How does it hurt speaker points, and how does it affect the entire round?

Like, anyway dude, whatever. Lemme' like know what ya'll think, know what I mean? It would be, like, solid if you respond so I don't have to figure it out on my own, 'n' stuff. Bottom line, I'll catch ya' later. Aight, peace.

-Adam

[pattybar]

An occasional overuse of "like" etc is ok, especially when it seems contained to one segment of the speech... although I know of one debater who had everyone in the room counting his "like"s "like, you know" and "umm"s so that we really had no idea what came out of his mouth.... Someone mentioned it to him and it was interesting to see him progress over the balance of the semester.

I honestly think that most people don't hear their sloppy speech when they are debating, so it takes another to point it out. If you find yourself doing it in a round, great... don't mention it, just STOP doing it and it is likely not to be noticed or remembered.

Take care,
Patty

[Liz]

I usually attribute that kind of sloppy speech to nerves. I have to confess to saying "like" a few more times than necessary when I'm nervous, but it's hard to believe that people are unaware of their own nervous tics. I saw a debater last year who said "like" 87 times, and that was only in the last two of his three speeches. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed and empathized through my continuing annoyance.

like,
Liz

[ML]

I get very nervous speaking in front of Liz. She has that icy glare that makes me feel like I'm a worthless speck of rendered humanity. "Like" and other fillers (not to mention mumbling, staring at the carpet, and compulsively clenching and unclencing my fists) are all I can do to keep from vomiting on myself. Thank god we only competed against each other in interp.

Lovies to Liz,
ML

[Western Amy]

Just whatever you do guys, if you debate in front of her, DON'T take off your shoes.