Corax & Tisias abuse

[dseltzer]

I would like to suggest that the recent abusive posting on the GGI results thread may indicate that a little discussion is needed about anonymous accounts. A dedicated and selfless individual, who has never said an unkind word to anyone in this community (or probably anywhere else) was inappropriately harrassed and his child insulted by an abuser of the Corax/Tisias account. Sadly, also, this is far from the first time that this kind of thing has happened, and the incidents seem to me to have escalated in the past month or two.

Now, I actually think the anonymity offered by Corax and Tisias is sometimes very valuable, in that it can allow a member of the community to raise an issue that could not otherwise safely be aired. But, I think we need to do something offer some check on the possibility of seriously hurting innocent people. The moderators do a great job of dealing with inappropriate posts as soon as they can, but even the best of them can't keep 24-hour vigilance.

So, my suggested plan, which is really also a questions for the site administrators: Is it possible to set up the system so that all Corax/Tisias posts have to be previewed by a moderator prior to actually posting publicly? Then, those that make legitimate use of anonymity could be posted, and the abusive ones would never see the light of day. (Actually, I'd like a worse fate for the scum who insulted Hannah, but I guess that will have to remain in my dreams.)

[boredguy8]

I don't get how people get hurt because someone who is too small to sign their name said something mean about them. Maybe it's just a lesson I learned from my pastor: he never even reads comments that aren't signed.

Ultimately, though, stopping corax and tisias doesn't stop anon account abuse. Mods do as much as they can to catch lameness, but I'm only on here 23/7, sorry.

[dseltzer]

Much as I deplore what happened with Danny's baby, this isn't just about that. The anon accounts have also been used very recently to try to start trouble for teams and to spread scandalous rumors (which I won't repeat here, since I don't want to play into malicious hands). Character assassination amounts to a lot more than people having their feelings hurt due to rude comments. Do we, as a community, want to continue to create an atmosphere that not only allows this, but whose inaction in its face might be said to facilitate it?

And the fact that you are only available 23/7 is exactly my point!

[crouching_tiger]

As I have had some rude comments posted about my team, i understand the plight to check the comment before it is posted, but I believe that the moderators still do an effecient job and are able to edit out the post in impressive time. Furthermore, the debate community (or at least those individuals who frequent this forum often) recognizes the rude comments and usually feels sympathetic for the targeted individual or team....For example I don't think anyone agreed with the most recent corax post or any others for that matter.

[Rebeccah Sharp]

While I appreciate this post, this is not the appropriate location for it. I'm placing it in the section for suggestions/campaigns for policy change.

While I'm at it, I'd like to point out that many people have been playing pretty fast and loose with the location of their posts lately. Please remember that On Case is only for debate discussion, and "loose links" such as "it's about debate because i'm inviting the people at this tournament to my house to hang out" are kind of missing the point. Some coaches read On Case only, and look to it to be a specific resource. Let's keep it that way.

[kissmycls]

For every Corax or Tisias post that gets edited where there might be some "abuse" there is another that got edited for what I feel are illigitamate reasons.

Personally I think finding out the name of and then engaging in public ridiculing/shaming of individuals who use anonymous accounts to insult babies (or others) is infinatly more preferable to making Corax/Tisias posts have to be veted by moderators.

[Gavin499]

Not to mention while needing prior approval is super, it's completely unworkable. If Corax and Tisias are set up to require approval, anonymous posters will just create new SNs without that requirement. The only way I can see to avoid that is to require all postings to be pre-approved, which would be both horribly difficult for the moderators (they do plenty already), and really lame.

Gavin
Pepperdine

[dseltzer]

Actually, that raises an important point: what are the kinds of "illegitimate" edits that you object to? Not that I want you to list specific ones, but can you describe the general types that fall in this category?

The kinds of things I'm thinking of, where just having them said in the first place might prove harmful, involve direct personal attacks on people and teams that would probably qualify as libel in a court of law - accusations of sexual misconduct and other types of criminal wrongdoing. Do you think that these need to be protected speech?

I have a real mix of feelings on this - I am obviously an outspoken person, and believe that people have a right to be heard. However, I am reluctant to be a part of any community that seems to (tacitly or overtly) encourage anonymous personal attacks ranging from the rude and offensive to the actually possibly illegal. For me, this thread is also a way of talking through some of the issues involved and hearing from others about their ideas.

[kissmycls]

Originally posted by dseltzer
Actually, that raises an important point: what are the kinds of "illegitimate" edits that you object to? Not that I want you to list specific ones, but can you describe the general types that fall in this category?

The kinds of things I'm thinking of, where just having them said in the first place might prove harmful, involve direct personal attacks on people and teams that would probably qualify as libel in a court of law - accusations of sexual misconduct and other types of criminal wrongdoing. Do you think that these need to be protected speech?


I think there have been lots of edits of Corax/Tisias that were called personal attacks but weren't, or were just labeled abuse without much justification (I feel it was becasue people objected to the posts). I am not singling out anyone in particular, I think lots of people have done this over the course of net-benefits history. Hopefully that clarifies things a little, without getting into specifics :)

Second I am definatly not going to defend the censorship of all things that would be liable in a court of law. That's just not a standard I agree with for a whole slew of reasons (nor is it a part of my moderation policy, which is a all about the absence of moderation). The reason I am against any moderation is because I feel the site is, in general over moderated (although whoever is insulting danny's daughter is making me look like an idiot :) ). I however would probably violate my own moderation policy if there was a case of Corax/Tisias sexual harrasment. I have come to realize that that is something that the debate community is way too tolerant/accepting of, and I am very uncomfortable with that.

Hopefully that clears up my moderation stance.

[Pinto4life]

OH MY GOD. NOT TROLLS ON A DEBATE BOARD! WHAT WILL WE EVER DO? I MEAN I DON'T HAVE ANY GRAINS OF SALT LEFT TO TAKE! THERE'S NO MORE WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE AND I CAN'T STOP THESE TEARS AFTER I SPILLED THE MILK. I AM ALSO REAPING WHAT I SOW. I EARNED A PENNY BY SAVING A PENNY. STOP WASTING YOUR FUCKING TIME.

[Rebeccah Sharp]

I do not know of any way to vet corax and tisias posts before they may be posted that would not necessitate corax/tisias revealing themselves to the moderator first. It's not something that is (as far as I know) workable with our software.

C/T cannot privately message (to avoid harassment), so PMing a mod is out. Finally, as Gavin points out, the ability to create a sockpuppet account will prevent much of the efficacy of such an action. I want to take the opportunity though to thank the moderators, as I feel that they are doing a great job at being fast on the draw with edits.